Comments on: Who Do You Think Are The Best Baseball Players To Ever Play The Game? http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/ A tribute to and petition for Ron Santo to be inducted in the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:23:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mcuflinx http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-200744 Mcuflinx Tue, 09 Nov 2010 01:04:56 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-200744 I am wondering why your original list failed to find a spot for Bob Gibson. Or that you haven't considered Greg Maddox (who got to 300+ wins during the Steroid Era). But you put Clemons in instead. I would easily exchange the two. Growing up in the SF Bay Area and watching Mays, McCovey, Marichal and the opposition such as Hank Aaron, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Roberto Clemente I think it is just too tough to limit it to 20. But I would have dropped Clemons, and Rickey Henderson to find a spot for Maddox and Clemente. And I guess leaving 600+ wins of Cy Young was an afterthought?? I am wondering why your original list failed to find a spot for Bob Gibson. Or that you haven’t considered Greg Maddox (who got to 300+ wins during the Steroid Era). But you put Clemons in instead. I would easily exchange the two.

Growing up in the SF Bay Area and watching Mays, McCovey, Marichal and the opposition such as Hank Aaron, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Roberto Clemente I think it is just too tough to limit it to 20. But I would have dropped Clemons, and Rickey Henderson to find a spot for Maddox and Clemente.

And I guess leaving 600+ wins of Cy Young was an afterthought??

]]> By: Ray http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-197409 Ray Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:21:15 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-197409 Its got to be Ron Santo, if you don't believe me, just ask him. Its got to be Ron Santo, if you don’t believe me, just ask him.

]]> By: jimbo http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-143727 jimbo Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:26:03 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-143727 1.Babe Ruth is the greatest player in major league history. 2.Walter Johnson, I've read, threw only a fastball for the first half of his career, impressive but if he pitched today the results would not be the same.3. Where is Koufax , Randy Johnson, or Carlton , all three better lefties than Grove.Koufax is probably the best pitcher of all time even if he did have only six good (dominating)seasons.4. What if people would have cared as much about closers in the early days as we do now?Smoky Joe Wood could have came back from his arm injury and been the John Smoltz of his time than maybe he would get the respect he deserves.5. Eric Gagne 02-04 is greatest closer of all time.6.Its a shame we even have to discuss whether or not Santo belongs in the Hall( he clearly does and will be eventually), look at his stats compared to Schimdt, and factor in the diabetes and the fact that Santo played in a deadball era, the numbers are really close, Santo did it for a shorter time though. 7. Everyone talks about Rose and Jackson and leaves out Eddie Cicotte, he would have been a hall of famer too.8 Who cares about steriods, it doesn't help you hit a baseball, maybe helps you hit it a little further, but it doesn't help make you a better hitter. If you doubt that go take some steroids for a while and see if you can get onto a major league roster. Since its obviously not going to stop, raise the pitchers mounds again and bring back the spit ball. 1.Babe Ruth is the greatest player in major league history. 2.Walter Johnson, I’ve read, threw only a fastball for the first half of his career, impressive but if he pitched today the results would not be the same.3. Where is Koufax , Randy Johnson, or Carlton , all three better lefties than Grove.Koufax is probably the best pitcher of all time even if he did have only six good (dominating)seasons.4. What if people would have cared as much about closers in the early days as we do now?Smoky Joe Wood could have came back from his arm injury and been the John Smoltz of his time than maybe he would get the respect he deserves.5. Eric Gagne 02-04 is greatest closer of all time.6.Its a shame we even have to discuss whether or not Santo belongs in the Hall( he clearly does and will be eventually), look at his stats compared to Schimdt, and factor in the diabetes and the fact that Santo played in a deadball era, the numbers are really close, Santo did it for a shorter time though. 7. Everyone talks about Rose and Jackson and leaves out Eddie Cicotte, he would have been a hall of famer too.8 Who cares about steriods, it doesn’t help you hit a baseball, maybe helps you hit it a little further, but it doesn’t help make you a better hitter. If you doubt that go take some steroids for a while and see if you can get onto a major league roster. Since its obviously not going to stop, raise the pitchers mounds again and bring back the spit ball.

]]> By: CONNER http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-143294 CONNER Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:39:31 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-143294 I'm tired of people putting Babe Ruth in the top 5 and putting over Lou Gehrig is a joke. Yes Babe Ruth was a better hitter in someways, but Lou was a FAR BETTER defence of player. I’m tired of people putting Babe Ruth in the top 5 and putting over Lou Gehrig is a joke. Yes Babe Ruth was a better hitter in someways, but Lou was a FAR BETTER defence of player.

]]> By: Fozzy http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-143169 Fozzy Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:43:53 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-143169 Actually there aren't many I can disagree with on your top 20 list. The only thing I have a difficult time with is judging both hitters and pitchers in the same list. I would probably disagree with your placement of Cobb and Mays - I would probably put mays at #2, and Cobb at #3. And Satchel Paige at number 19 is tough for me - not that he wasn't great, but it's tough to distinguish fact from legend in Paige's case. (Unfortunately , that's true of a good number of the old N-e-g-r-o League players) Another player in that vein might be Josh Gibson, and if I went merely on the stories I hear, I would probably make room for Gibson somewhere on your list. I would also probably move Mantle up quite a bit (I'm thinking top 10 at least) and move Aaron down more toward 14 or 15, I am very glad though to see a couple of things - most notably being that you have Musial on there. Too often he seems to be forgotten by today's fans. And I'm also glad that you did NOT include Nolan Ryan, who to me is one of the most over-rated pitchers of all time. Yes, he threw 7 no hitters, and he was probably capable of ythrowing one every time he went out to the mound, but he also was very capable of giving up 6 runs in 3 innings, or walking 10 men in a game. For the relievers, I can't disagree with Rivera at #1. He has to be the closect thing to a sure thing of any relief pitcher in history. And Eckersley belongs there as well. Wagner and Hoffman to me are more a product of pitchers getting "easy saves" - that is coming in to a game with a 2 or 3 run lead simply because the manager is "going by the book" and putting his closer in. Both very good pitchers, at times flat out dominant, but I think their save totals are somewhat inflated because of the way the game is played today. I would perhaps put Sutter ion the list - he seemed to come along at a time when there weren't many truly dominant closers. and perhaps did more to change the way a manager used his bullpen than any other relief pitcher. Going against him would be his relatively short career. And I'd probably put Elroy Face on there - any pitcher that can win 19 games in relief in a season is truly special. So probably my list would be more like - 1. Rivera 2. Eckersley 3. Sutter 4. Gossage 5. Face Another possibility for reliever would be Rollie Fingers, another one who came along at a time when the closer role was relatively new. BQ - actually I would never wish that Jackson and/or Rose were in the Hall. Their actions should be judged on their merits alone, not the despicable behavior of players later on. The facts are still the facts - Jackson conspired to throw a World Series, and Rose bet on ballgames. No number of steroid using freaks will change that, and their eligibility for the Hall should not be changed simply because someone has done something "worse". Finally, I'm definitely of the opinion that Santo should have been in the Hall years ago. The dominant third baseman in the NL during the 1960's, a perennial All-Star, and a very under rated defensive player. I think that people tend to look at his stats too closely - particularly his 342 home runs - not impressive by todays standards perhaps, but at the time he retired, he was second all time among third baseman. (to Eddie Mathews) I think Santo is also hurt by the fact that he never played in a World Series. Those Cubs teams of the late 60's and early 70's already have 3 HOF players in Jenkins, Williams, and Banks, and probably a lot of people don't think it's possible to have a team that never won anything have so many members of the Hall. I still say that if you put Brooks Robinson on the Cubs and Santo on the Orioles, Santo would be in the Hall, and we perhaps would instead be asking why Robinson wasn't in yet. While Santo was never as flashy as Robinson, he was a much better hitter than Brooks ever was. The fact that he is not in is, in my opinion, proof that the members of the Veteran's Committee are just not very anxious to let someone into their "old boys club". As for Hodges, I'm torn on him. For the most part I think he does belong, but I'm not sure if he was truly an all time great. I'd probably be happy if he were to make it, but I can't really say I'm all that bothered by the fact that he isn't in it. Call it a case of tremendous indifference. Great questions - nice to see some that actually require some thought. Actually there aren’t many I can disagree with on your top 20 list. The only thing I have a difficult time with is judging both hitters and pitchers in the same list.
I would probably disagree with your placement of Cobb and Mays – I would probably put mays at #2, and Cobb at #3. And Satchel Paige at number 19 is tough for me – not that he wasn’t great, but it’s tough to distinguish fact from legend in Paige’s case. (Unfortunately , that’s true of a good number of the old N-e-g-r-o League players) Another player in that vein might be Josh Gibson, and if I went merely on the stories I hear, I would probably make room for Gibson somewhere on your list.
I would also probably move Mantle up quite a bit (I’m thinking top 10 at least) and move Aaron down more toward 14 or 15,
I am very glad though to see a couple of things – most notably being that you have Musial on there. Too often he seems to be forgotten by today’s fans. And I’m also glad that you did NOT include Nolan Ryan, who to me is one of the most over-rated pitchers of all time. Yes, he threw 7 no hitters, and he was probably capable of ythrowing one every time he went out to the mound, but he also was very capable of giving up 6 runs in 3 innings, or walking 10 men in a game.
For the relievers, I can’t disagree with Rivera at #1. He has to be the closect thing to a sure thing of any relief pitcher in history. And Eckersley belongs there as well. Wagner and Hoffman to me are more a product of pitchers getting “easy saves” – that is coming in to a game with a 2 or 3 run lead simply because the manager is “going by the book” and putting his closer in. Both very good pitchers, at times flat out dominant, but I think their save totals are somewhat inflated because of the way the game is played today.
I would perhaps put Sutter ion the list – he seemed to come along at a time when there weren’t many truly dominant closers. and perhaps did more to change the way a manager used his bullpen than any other relief pitcher. Going against him would be his relatively short career. And I’d probably put Elroy Face on there – any pitcher that can win 19 games in relief in a season is truly special. So probably my list would be more like -
1. Rivera
2. Eckersley
3. Sutter
4. Gossage
5. Face
Another possibility for reliever would be Rollie Fingers, another one who came along at a time when the closer role was relatively new.
BQ – actually I would never wish that Jackson and/or Rose were in the Hall. Their actions should be judged on their merits alone, not the despicable behavior of players later on. The facts are still the facts – Jackson conspired to throw a World Series, and Rose bet on ballgames. No number of steroid using freaks will change that, and their eligibility for the Hall should not be changed simply because someone has done something “worse”.
Finally, I’m definitely of the opinion that Santo should have been in the Hall years ago. The dominant third baseman in the NL during the 1960′s, a perennial All-Star, and a very under rated defensive player. I think that people tend to look at his stats too closely – particularly his 342 home runs – not impressive by todays standards perhaps, but at the time he retired, he was second all time among third baseman. (to Eddie Mathews) I think Santo is also hurt by the fact that he never played in a World Series. Those Cubs teams of the late 60′s and early 70′s already have 3 HOF players in Jenkins, Williams, and Banks, and probably a lot of people don’t think it’s possible to have a team that never won anything have so many members of the Hall. I still say that if you put Brooks Robinson on the Cubs and Santo on the Orioles, Santo would be in the Hall, and we perhaps would instead be asking why Robinson wasn’t in yet. While Santo was never as flashy as Robinson, he was a much better hitter than Brooks ever was. The fact that he is not in is, in my opinion, proof that the members of the Veteran’s Committee are just not very anxious to let someone into their “old boys club”.
As for Hodges, I’m torn on him. For the most part I think he does belong, but I’m not sure if he was truly an all time great. I’d probably be happy if he were to make it, but I can’t really say I’m all that bothered by the fact that he isn’t in it. Call it a case of tremendous indifference.
Great questions – nice to see some that actually require some thought.

]]> By: Just in La La LanD http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-143170 Just in La La LanD Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:43:53 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-143170 I'm just wondering.... why did you put Piazza in the same category as Bonds, Giambi, and Canseco? Piazza was never tested positive or on the Mitchell Report. Piazza does not belong on the list of names you put. You can't just assume the man took steroids because he was a good hitter. I’m just wondering…. why did you put Piazza in the same category as Bonds, Giambi, and Canseco? Piazza was never tested positive or on the Mitchell Report. Piazza does not belong on the list of names you put. You can’t just assume the man took steroids because he was a good hitter.

]]> By: ZeppineX http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-143171 ZeppineX Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:43:53 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-143171 Baseball is the only sport where we can remember all these guys somehow. I cannot name you NFL or NBA players from the 50s and 60s or even the 70s. But for some reason we can name baseball players from before the 50s. But whatever. I do think that Babe Ruth is the greates ever, but I wonder how come you guys left out Willie Mays or Jackie Robinson. What about Sandy Koufax or Reggie Jackson? Jim Palmer and George Brett. It is impossible to make a list like this when it comes to baseball. Baseball is the only sport where we can remember all these guys somehow. I cannot name you NFL or NBA players from the 50s and 60s or even the 70s. But for some reason we can name baseball players from before the 50s.
But whatever.
I do think that Babe Ruth is the greates ever, but I wonder how come you guys left out Willie Mays or Jackie Robinson.
What about Sandy Koufax or Reggie Jackson?
Jim Palmer and George Brett.
It is impossible to make a list like this when it comes to baseball.

]]> By: GoBravos321(Vote for McCann) http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-143172 GoBravos321(Vote for McCann) Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:43:53 +0000 http://www.santoforhall.com/2009/06/21/who-do-you-think-are-the-best-baseball-players-to-ever-play-the-game/#comment-143172 1.Hank Aaron 2.Ty Cobb 3.Ted Williams 4.Babe Ruth 5.Lou Gehrig 6.Mickey Mantle 7.Walter Johnson 8.Pete Rose 9.Bob Gibson 10.Stan Musial 11.Rogers Hornsby 12.Cy Young 13.Ken Griffey Jr. 14.Joe Dimaggio 15.Warren Spahn 16.Greg Maddux 17.Satchel Paige 18.Eddie Matthews 19.Rickey Henderson 20.Al Kaline Best Relievers 1.Trevor Hoffman 2.Dennis Eckersly 3.John Franco 4.Goose Gossage 5.Francisco Rodriguez Of course, Pete Rose and Joe Jackson didn't really cheat the competition by using unnatural ways of getting stronger they just betted against the game and threw a world series. 1.Hank Aaron
2.Ty Cobb
3.Ted Williams
4.Babe Ruth
5.Lou Gehrig
6.Mickey Mantle
7.Walter Johnson
8.Pete Rose
9.Bob Gibson
10.Stan Musial
11.Rogers Hornsby
12.Cy Young
13.Ken Griffey Jr.
14.Joe Dimaggio
15.Warren Spahn
16.Greg Maddux
17.Satchel Paige
18.Eddie Matthews
19.Rickey Henderson
20.Al Kaline
Best Relievers
1.Trevor Hoffman
2.Dennis Eckersly
3.John Franco
4.Goose Gossage
5.Francisco Rodriguez
Of course, Pete Rose and Joe Jackson didn’t really cheat the competition by using unnatural ways of getting stronger they just betted against the game and threw a world series.

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