Comments

1. Fozzy says:

   June 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm

   Actually there aren’t many I can disagree with on your top 20 list. The only thing I have a difficult time with is judging both hitters and pitchers in the same list.
   I would probably disagree with your placement of Cobb and Mays – I would probably put mays at #2, and Cobb at #3. And Satchel Paige at number 19 is tough for me – not that he wasn’t great, but it’s tough to distinguish fact from legend in Paige’s case. (Unfortunately , that’s true of a good number of the old N-e-g-r-o League players) Another player in that vein might be Josh Gibson, and if I went merely on the stories I hear, I would probably make room for Gibson somewhere on your list.
   I would also probably move Mantle up quite a bit (I’m thinking top 10 at least) and move Aaron down more toward 14 or 15,
   I am very glad though to see a couple of things – most notably being that you have Musial on there. Too often he seems to be forgotten by today’s fans. And I’m also glad that you did NOT include Nolan Ryan, who to me is one of the most over-rated pitchers of all time. Yes, he threw 7 no hitters, and he was probably capable of ythrowing one every time he went out to the mound, but he also was very capable of giving up 6 runs in 3 innings, or walking 10 men in a game.
   For the relievers, I can’t disagree with Rivera at #1. He has to be the closect thing to a sure thing of any relief pitcher in history. And Eckersley belongs there as well. Wagner and Hoffman to me are more a product of pitchers getting “easy saves” – that is coming in to a game with a 2 or 3 run lead simply because the manager is “going by the book” and putting his closer in. Both very good pitchers, at times flat out dominant, but I think their save totals are somewhat inflated because of the way the game is played today.
   I would perhaps put Sutter ion the list – he seemed to come along at a time when there weren’t many truly dominant closers. and perhaps did more to change the way a manager used his bullpen than any other relief pitcher. Going against him would be his relatively short career. And I’d probably put Elroy Face on there – any pitcher that can win 19 games in relief in a season is truly special. So probably my list would be more like -
   1. Rivera
   2. Eckersley
   3. Sutter
   4. Gossage
   5. Face
   Another possibility for reliever would be Rollie Fingers, another one who came along at a time when the closer role was relatively new.
   BQ – actually I would never wish that Jackson and/or Rose were in the Hall. Their actions should be judged on their merits alone, not the despicable behavior of players later on. The facts are still the facts – Jackson conspired to throw a World Series, and Rose bet on ballgames. No number of steroid using freaks will change that, and their eligibility for the Hall should not be changed simply because someone has done something “worse”.
   Finally, I’m definitely of the opinion that Santo should have been in the Hall years ago. The dominant third baseman in the NL during the 1960’s, a perennial All-Star, and a very under rated defensive player. I think that people tend to look at his stats too closely – particularly his 342 home runs – not impressive by todays standards perhaps, but at the time he retired, he was second all time among third baseman. (to Eddie Mathews) I think Santo is also hurt by the fact that he never played in a World Series. Those Cubs teams of the late 60’s and early 70’s already have 3 HOF players in Jenkins, Williams, and Banks, and probably a lot of people don’t think it’s possible to have a team that never won anything have so many members of the Hall. I still say that if you put Brooks Robinson on the Cubs and Santo on the Orioles, Santo would be in the Hall, and we perhaps would instead be asking why Robinson wasn’t in yet. While Santo was never as flashy as Robinson, he was a much better hitter than Brooks ever was. The fact that he is not in is, in my opinion, proof that the members of the Veteran’s Committee are just not very anxious to let someone into their “old boys club”.
   As for Hodges, I’m torn on him. For the most part I think he does belong, but I’m not sure if he was truly an all time great. I’d probably be happy if he were to make it, but I can’t really say I’m all that bothered by the fact that he isn’t in it. Call it a case of tremendous indifference.
   Great questions – nice to see some that actually require some thought.
2. Just in La La LanD says:

   June 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm

   I’m just wondering…. why did you put Piazza in the same category as Bonds, Giambi, and Canseco? Piazza was never tested positive or on the Mitchell Report. Piazza does not belong on the list of names you put. You can’t just assume the man took steroids because he was a good hitter.
3. ZeppineX says:

   June 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm

   Baseball is the only sport where we can remember all these guys somehow. I cannot name you NFL or NBA players from the 50s and 60s or even the 70s. But for some reason we can name baseball players from before the 50s.
   But whatever.
   I do think that Babe Ruth is the greates ever, but I wonder how come you guys left out Willie Mays or Jackie Robinson.
   What about Sandy Koufax or Reggie Jackson?
   Jim Palmer and George Brett.
   It is impossible to make a list like this when it comes to baseball.
4. GoBravos321(Vote for McCann) says:

   June 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm

   1.Hank Aaron
   2.Ty Cobb
   3.Ted Williams
   4.Babe Ruth
   5.Lou Gehrig
   6.Mickey Mantle
   7.Walter Johnson
   8.Pete Rose
   9.Bob Gibson
   10.Stan Musial
   11.Rogers Hornsby
   12.Cy Young
   13.Ken Griffey Jr.
   14.Joe Dimaggio
   15.Warren Spahn
   16.Greg Maddux
   17.Satchel Paige
   18.Eddie Matthews
   19.Rickey Henderson
   20.Al Kaline
   Best Relievers
   1.Trevor Hoffman
   2.Dennis Eckersly
   3.John Franco
   4.Goose Gossage
   5.Francisco Rodriguez
   Of course, Pete Rose and Joe Jackson didn’t really cheat the competition by using unnatural ways of getting stronger they just betted against the game and threw a world series.
5. CONNER says:

   June 22, 2009 at 1:39 pm

   I’m tired of people putting Babe Ruth in the top 5 and putting over Lou Gehrig is a joke. Yes Babe Ruth was a better hitter in someways, but Lou was a FAR BETTER defence of player.
6. jimbo says:

   June 28, 2009 at 2:26 pm

   1.Babe Ruth is the greatest player in major league history. 2.Walter Johnson, I’ve read, threw only a fastball for the first half of his career, impressive but if he pitched today the results would not be the same.3. Where is Koufax , Randy Johnson, or Carlton , all three better lefties than Grove.Koufax is probably the best pitcher of all time even if he did have only six good (dominating)seasons.4. What if people would have cared as much about closers in the early days as we do now?Smoky Joe Wood could have came back from his arm injury and been the John Smoltz of his time than maybe he would get the respect he deserves.5. Eric Gagne 02-04 is greatest closer of all time.6.Its a shame we even have to discuss whether or not Santo belongs in the Hall( he clearly does and will be eventually), look at his stats compared to Schimdt, and factor in the diabetes and the fact that Santo played in a deadball era, the numbers are really close, Santo did it for a shorter time though. 7. Everyone talks about Rose and Jackson and leaves out Eddie Cicotte, he would have been a hall of famer too.8 Who cares about steriods, it doesn’t help you hit a baseball, maybe helps you hit it a little further, but it doesn’t help make you a better hitter. If you doubt that go take some steroids for a while and see if you can get onto a major league roster. Since its obviously not going to stop, raise the pitchers mounds again and bring back the spit ball.
7. Ray says:

   August 3, 2010 at 4:21 pm

   Its got to be Ron Santo, if you don’t believe me, just ask him.